Good night! Nothing more. For most, even for insiders (like I used to be, 2x an elder) it takes a very long time to finally look at things as they actually are and admit Pastor is not only not a decent guy, but whether hes aware of it or not, hes likely sold out to the service of hell itself! And many of them are, perhaps a number that would shock us all. Parallel universe I suppose; different set of rules most likely. Hence, it is easier to build a close-knit cult of people who really dont know each other that well. he has no idea who well you know Scripture. Give me the bellicose jerks any time. Or is this site simply about wholesale condemnation. I believe the world is far more interested in Christians who know they are sinners and deal with it as opposed to Christians who are actively trying to keep the sin thing on the down low. What I count is as follows: Jesus is our model of leadership. She had no way of knowing of other incidents and we now see why. My problem with all of this is that I am no fan of or apologist for mega churches or mega stars of any stripe. These are the things that The Church has to wake up to. I know its not popular here, but Im also thankful for their seeker sensitive approach. (ed deleted link). We do not allow rank condemnation of anyone who has been victimized, even if said person doesnt believe them. I hope they will be held accountable and step down. Once again, you are doing Satans work not Gods. She felt even more blessed when in 1985 Mr. Hybels and his wife invited her to move into their home, where she shared family dinners and vacations. The woman alleging an affair with Bill said that she was suicidal, both to Leanne and to Bill. This is why I have posted the 1 Tim 5 passage in two threads recently: Just read what the Bible says about leaders and ask, Is it even possible that God would set these high standards for elders/overseers/pastors and then only give us promiscuous, abusive, and manipulative leaders?. Brad may be a Christian, one stunted by being immersed in an environment that had the form of godliness while denying the power, but he also may be one who wouldnt know Jesus if He walked up and gave him a hug. I cannot imagine the pain, the hurt. Peoples boundaries and privacy should never be breached unless specifically invited or welcomed to do so one way or the other. They collected funds for widows and orphans, and then distributed those funds as promised. To TWW regulars: I am becoming concerned that there will be a full court press by some people. Terrible, terrible thing. We sat under their leadership at Willow Creek for several years and were sad when the Ortbergs left to California. I realize that what Jodi Walle is saying John Ortberg did is not on the level of what Bill Hybels did, but it still is extremely unbecoming of a pastor of a church to use the F word or comment on the looks of other women. Narcissistic, abusive leaders are masterful manipulators, and even the most intelligent, cynical, questioning people can be taken under their spell without knowing it has happened. Where is the debater of this age? And a pedestal they can fall from and did. If people doubted my testimony about being assaulted by a guy who publicly harassed women that nobody could stand, then certainly they wont believe their favored celebrity can do things like that. She uses grooming quite cleverly. Eloquence is a gift from God, but it is only the Holy Spirit working through the folly of proclaiming Christ crucified that ever won a single soul. At least you know what they are upfront . Not a wise thing to do. And whistleblowers are rarely the pristine good guys with no baggage. Its not the victim. . Lets do church. Amnon: I WANNA TAMAR! We could apply those words to the most recent statement by Mr Hybels. Peter Led about 3000 to Christ on the day of Pentacost. When youre the victim of something creepy, such as abuse, suggestive sexual behavior or private narcissistic rage or whatever ugly thing from a pastor who holds himself up as a paragon of virtue, people often feel embarrassed at having been involved in it, even if they had nothing to do with the wrongful actions. Whats being destroyed is the idol worship of Bill Hybels. If the situation at the top remains insular, one doesnt find out what friendly financial terms are struck, and before you know it, the heat dies down and the PayPal accounts go live for those not of retirement age, and the book deals resume for them as well as the retirees. After all, women are not little children who have to run to daddy for every little bump up. WITCHES! Whatever it is, its wrong-headed. No one walks away unascathed. I wonder if her crisis of faith was after finding out about something shady Bill was doing? Speak the Word when it is time and serve with love always. They are evangelized for church. It is now obvious to me why Ortberg not only believed the accounts of the other victims but why she advocated for them. Judging Others They sounded clearly clueless about the price and pain that Hybels' behavior inflicted on his victims. Who though renowned for his wisdom, had a strong of Rich Kid with Famous Father syndrome. Thanks Dee. 3) Their situation is, as Jack Nicholsons character says in the movie of the same name, As good as it gets.. Unfortunately, this particular scandal not only impacts specific Willow Creek pastors or employees it impacts the body of Christ and the thousands of people seeking to know Jesus. Well said, Betty! I am going to assume this women does not know how business is conducted these days. that their chief goal is to get their sexual needs met without negotiation. 4 So when you are assembled and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present, 5 hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh,[a][b] so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord.. Some will walk away all together from their faith journey. This fact is well known to those who are around sexual abuse/misconduct situations. Why wait until now?? But friends I hug more frequently, family, etc. And I promise: NO ONE was ever saved, in all history, because of eloquence. I have Every year for many years OT once and NT twice- every year. Its so clear how this happened on the womens part. They often wonder, Did that really just happen? What really just happened? Am I interpreting that correctly? How should I interpret it? etc., etc.. Peter was upset. Betrayal, trust, etc. Excellent post. My assessment is that the entire leadership there at Willow Creek needs to be held accountable and the base must face this issue with appropriate consequences. Ummm-not exactly. Bill and Lynne Hybels draw on their own personal experience and a guiding faith to offer practical advice on how to enjoy a lifetime of togetherness -- from finding a suitable mate and dealing with the most common marital problems to avoiding the pitfalls that can sabotage a healthy relationship. Sometimes I wonder if it is not their worst enemy. Sounds like at least some of the accusers would like to see justice for sure, but also redemption for even Hybels. If you arent getting that from family, church and friends might conceivably help meet that need. Because saving his legacy saves Willow Creek. Hybels has barely spoken anything about his married life and rarely has appeared in the media with his wife. None of the first seven ecumenical councils dealt with this topic, which pretty much means that the line of heresy was never defined. Its what someone mentioned in another thread about 75% of people go along with whatever to be accepted. Look up who are semitic people. He is the founder and CEO of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church), one of the most powerful and influential organizations globally. Ah, the broad-brush accusation of slamming the Church when actions of their leadership are called into question. The one about J. Ortberg? An accusation could hurt the church, the members and even Christianity. @ Erp: And its worse for Christian rocks stars, because nobody spiritualizes your regular rock band, and expects them to be perfect. So, does that mean the alleged improprieties, at least for them, are not #Metoo worthy offenses? So your mind overrides your gut. Bill Hybels married Lynne Hybels back in 1974. Its about truth, loving others, the actual fruits of the Spirit, obedience to the Lord. Does anybody know how much hugging it takes to facilitate which feeling, assuming that the response is does related? As a victim-advocate and blogger, I feel isolated because of my time zone. They were powerful, influentual, respected leaders. It is easy for me to be critical (it may be my spiritual gift) but I do join with Dee in praying for the church. William Edward (Bill) LaBarre of Marietta passed away at his home at 1:52 AM Saturday, February 25, 2023 surrounded by his family. So they fell in line with the One World system, befriended evil people and embraced Satans (the worlds) ways. There is nothing wrong with this picture, this is the way it happens. Thus, the cottage industry that often accompanies or is an integral part of their ministry (sic) glides on, and the supposed spiritual.authority who is moving on is positioned to escape consequences and true rebuke. I wonder if he knows? Yes, I am. how many people worship Hybels instead of God. If this very not such a serious matter, their would be some humor in this. if this was mishandled, was else has been mishandled? I absolutely agree that the same exact methods are used on both ends of the spectrum. @ Deborah: Jan 13, 2018. The existence of an impartial documented history of 2 years worth of 1150 emails between Bill and the other woman is stark corroboration. Your comments prove your ignorance and arrogance. You want to know the lack of leadership moment that really stood out to me in Hybels own words? Absalom: Avenge his full-sister Tamar; Blood Feud; Honor Killing of Amnon. Ive no doubt that there was irregularities going on at WCC. Most of these people have no clue they are in a thought reform situation until they get very far away from it. She felt even more blessed when in 1985 Mr. Hybels and his wife invited her to move into their home, where she shared family dinners and vacations. Its the same thing my university wrings their hands over. So many Christians mix this whole thing up. but I know you dont have that set up. And Im 49, a loudmouth, professionally trained in safeguarding& so on. Two general statements: I am so very proud of her and with how hard this has been on everyone. Whether anyone associated with any of his accusers is a jerk or not, I fail to see the pointunless, of course, the point is to smear whoever accuses him so that people will think twice before bringing forth any more stories. Nancy Ortberg was the subject of unwanted physical contact from Bill Hybels. Read the Bible Dee. Lynne Hybels Bill (281 results). Oh, absolutely. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JUdWApwbudQ. No one walks away unascathed. When was the last time you led someone to Jesus? It never appeared that they were the type of people that would not speak up. It would seem somewhat of a legal issue to go around wiping documents and videos, no? What nonsense. This video was shot in and aroundKirkenesand Pas National Park bordering Russia, at 70 degree north and 30 degrees east. How hard is it for men to keep their hands off women in the work environment? This is about strange behavior which was tolerated because one guy knew how to build a church and bring in money. No one wants to think their pastor is being inappropriate, so your brain just dismisses it. And if it gets really bad the staunch hybels factions may end up being ousted. he shoveled my walkway and came to the neighborhood potlucks? The church Elders allowed Bill to stay in an unsupervised counseling relationship with her, while neither her husband nor Bill's wife was made aware of the situation. Stop attacking victims. tax. Im not sure if Julie is a regular or not (I cant keep up), but a new Twitter account alerted me to that article as well, that is why I asked. For example, I have no problem with a man eating dinner in a public restaurant with a woman who is not his wife . When I got up to leave Bill stopped me at the door and hugged/held me tightly for about thirty seconds. While WW can be messy, I think most poster here just want honesty, transparacy, and protection/respect of the weaker ones. I know the sun will rise in the morning, that there is a light at the end of every tunnel.Michael Morpurgo. August 7, 2018. By the time you get there, youve probably already been compromised yourself, youve supported a lot of evil things, youve shouted down others who were only trying to get at the truth (as I once did, alassorry, Adam, you were right and I was wrong, pastor really was up to no good), and its not easy to extricate yourself or your family. William Hybels is an American author and church figure. You will be swamped with Williow Creek and Bill Hybels telling us how to and their morality. @ AbuseCrusher: It was always funny to me (sad really) how when Bill Hybels prayed for/about something no matter what it was, that according to Hybels God always answered him immediately or within days. Maybe thats just how he is. I think the safest place for interaction is in public. I will leave you to your study. As Bill Hybels learned, there's far more to romantic love than meets the eye. Their view of the person is completely undermined by the experience. You can trust Jesus and He is your perfect role model. I am going to add one further post that will be two pictures and then I will allow all these posts to stay for comment. I really liked your comment. Dee, I was wondering how you got him to do that gig. Rich Kid with Famous Father syndrome am no fan of or apologist for mega churches or stars... 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